Comments on: Day 1 of mesh 2007 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/ innovate. integrate. ignite. Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:36:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Scott Feschuk http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65823 Scott Feschuk Thu, 31 May 2007 00:00:10 +0000 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65823 Hi there tamera (and phil): i kind of regretted the "idiots" comments when it came out, but only because i feared it might be misinterpreted. What I said was that the new "interface" between public and politician -- as Garth described it -- is devalued by the presence of idiots (the submoronic sorts we see leaving inane comments all over the web). I'm not saying, obviously, that everyone is an idiot -- only that their presence sometimes prompts politicians to ignore or underestimate the more quality feedback and ideas that might be out there. Hi there tamera (and phil): i kind of regretted the “idiots” comments when it came out, but only because i feared it might be misinterpreted. What I said was that the new “interface” between public and politician — as Garth described it — is devalued by the presence of idiots (the submoronic sorts we see leaving inane comments all over the web). I’m not saying, obviously, that everyone is an idiot — only that their presence sometimes prompts politicians to ignore or underestimate the more quality feedback and ideas that might be out there.

]]> By: Kevin http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65769 Kevin Wed, 30 May 2007 21:51:03 +0000 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65769 Sounds like some great ideas being shared over there at Mesh... I wish I could be there myself! I wanted to share a thought on the notion of "stupid bloggers", especially in regard to political blogging. But, of course, not being there to hear what was said on the panel, I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth. Putting aside the inevitable trolls (the ones who purposely instigate conflict and enjoy watching a community melt down), I've often seen people argue right past one another in heated conversations, and it seems that quite often, people with disparate styles of communication just don't recognize what the other is trying to say. If a site like dKos wants to be a sort of sieve for filtering grassroots policy ideas up to the dealmakers, then there is a certain style of writing -- possibly a certain type of personality -- which is better suited to that role than others. But, not everyone is a masterful writer, or a great public speaker, or a great storyteller. I often see people who are very passionate about political issues, who have a strong desire to influence the discussion, but their message is lost because it's not framed in the "proper" style. Just because one can't write a position paper doesn't mean they should be excluded from the political process. Sounds like some great ideas being shared over there at Mesh… I wish I could be there myself! I wanted to share a thought on the notion of “stupid bloggers”, especially in regard to political blogging. But, of course, not being there to hear what was said on the panel, I don’t want to put words in anybody’s mouth.

Putting aside the inevitable trolls (the ones who purposely instigate conflict and enjoy watching a community melt down), I’ve often seen people argue right past one another in heated conversations, and it seems that quite often, people with disparate styles of communication just don’t recognize what the other is trying to say. If a site like dKos wants to be a sort of sieve for filtering grassroots policy ideas up to the dealmakers, then there is a certain style of writing — possibly a certain type of personality — which is better suited to that role than others.

But, not everyone is a masterful writer, or a great public speaker, or a great storyteller. I often see people who are very passionate about political issues, who have a strong desire to influence the discussion, but their message is lost because it’s not framed in the “proper” style. Just because one can’t write a position paper doesn’t mean they should be excluded from the political process.

]]> By: tamera http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65759 tamera Wed, 30 May 2007 21:29:08 +0000 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65759 Phil, I appreciate this further elaboration and I certainly wouldn't want you to feel that your opinions are any less valid just because you're not a Canuck. In terms of the 'stupid' and 'crazies' remarks by Scott and yourself, neither of you said "voters" but by definition people posting comments are citizens and voters, not abstract contributers on blogs. I felt that distinction was important so I highlighted it. Btw, you did refer to the majority of the comments on dkos as being written by crazies vs. the more measured or valuable contributions of the diarists. It have just been flippant, but it rubbed me the wrong way, as you can tell! I'll look for you. Cheers, Tamera Phil, I appreciate this further elaboration and I certainly wouldn’t want you to feel that your opinions are any less valid just because you’re not a Canuck.

In terms of the ’stupid’ and ‘crazies’ remarks by Scott and yourself, neither of you said “voters” but by definition people posting comments are citizens and voters, not abstract contributers on blogs. I felt that distinction was important so I highlighted it.

Btw, you did refer to the majority of the comments on dkos as being written by crazies vs. the more measured or valuable contributions of the diarists. It have just been flippant, but it rubbed me the wrong way, as you can tell!

I’ll look for you.

Cheers,
Tamera

]]> By: Philip de Vellis http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65744 Philip de Vellis Wed, 30 May 2007 20:59:45 +0000 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65744 Just saw your latest post. Yes, definitely find me. We'll have an interesting chat. I'm self-admittedly a newbie in your country's online politics, which might explain why I held back on the panel. I'd like to learn more. Just saw your latest post. Yes, definitely find me. We’ll have an interesting chat. I’m self-admittedly a newbie in your country’s online politics, which might explain why I held back on the panel. I’d like to learn more.

]]> By: Philip de Vellis http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65741 Philip de Vellis Wed, 30 May 2007 20:57:15 +0000 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65741 I don't think anyone called voters stupid. And I'm still not sure why you think my view of the electorate is cynical. I specifically stated that citizen admakers are likely to have more of an impact with video than campaigns. And I defended the power of collection action using the internet as an organizing tool. That being said, I agree with you that Garth was a better panelist than me. He's an excellent speaker and has done something amazing with his blog. No politician in the United States -- except for presidential candidates -- has as many active commentors. I don’t think anyone called voters stupid. And I’m still not sure why you think my view of the electorate is cynical.

I specifically stated that citizen admakers are likely to have more of an impact with video than campaigns. And I defended the power of collection action using the internet as an organizing tool.

That being said, I agree with you that Garth was a better panelist than me. He’s an excellent speaker and has done something amazing with his blog.

No politician in the United States — except for presidential candidates — has as many active commentors.

]]> By: tamera http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65734 tamera Wed, 30 May 2007 20:52:38 +0000 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65734 Philip, I also took issue with Garth's stance on responding to constituent emails, although if he was on the same side as "Make Poverty History" then the emails were redundant and would be annoying and I can see his point. If you're at the social later today I'll try and find you. Philip, I also took issue with Garth’s stance on responding to constituent emails, although if he was on the same side as “Make Poverty History” then the emails were redundant and would be annoying and I can see his point.

If you’re at the social later today I’ll try and find you.

]]> By: tamera http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65731 tamera Wed, 30 May 2007 20:48:09 +0000 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65731 Well, I certainly did not fall for it hook line and sinker. I took issue with what Garth said about moderating his comments, but took more issue with calling voters stupid, which he did not. my point was that he came off better in the discussion than the two consultants - for the reasons I articulated, although the entire panel was disappointingly cynical. Well, I certainly did not fall for it hook line and sinker. I took issue with what Garth said about moderating his comments, but took more issue with calling voters stupid, which he did not. my point was that he came off better in the discussion than the two consultants - for the reasons I articulated, although the entire panel was disappointingly cynical.

]]> By: Philip de Vellis http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65715 Philip de Vellis Wed, 30 May 2007 20:34:12 +0000 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65715 For the record, I certainly do not think commentors are crazy. My point was that if vapid, angry comments bother you, ignore them. Don't let them color your view of the blogosphere. More significant are the longer writing of bloggers or diarists. I also took issue with Garth's reaction to constituent emails. Politicians should pay attention if they are innundated with emails. Sure it is a pain, but this is what it takes to get many of them to listen. Introduce yourself to me and let's talk further. For the record, I certainly do not think commentors are crazy. My point was that if vapid, angry comments bother you, ignore them.

Don’t let them color your view of the blogosphere. More significant are the longer writing of bloggers or diarists.

I also took issue with Garth’s reaction to constituent emails. Politicians should pay attention if they are innundated with emails. Sure it is a pain, but this is what it takes to get many of them to listen.

Introduce yourself to me and let’s talk further.

]]> By: Halton_Voter http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65713 Halton_Voter Wed, 30 May 2007 20:23:36 +0000 http://3i.wildfirestrategy.com/2007/05/30/day-1-of-mesh-2007/#comment-65713 And youve fallen hook line and sinker. Garth edits and deletes from his blog every day numerous comments that HE doesnt want people to see on the blog. He lets his regular posters and alter egos (he posts as several different characters on his blog) attack others without editing or cautioning them on their tone...but when someone wants to point out Turners hypocrisy... he doesnt even post the comment. Garth is a leader of digital censorship. And youve fallen hook line and sinker. Garth edits and deletes from his blog every day numerous comments that HE doesnt want people to see on the blog. He lets his regular posters and alter egos (he posts as several different characters on his blog) attack others without editing or cautioning them on their tone…but when someone wants to point out Turners hypocrisy… he doesnt even post the comment.

Garth is a leader of digital censorship.

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